Typst 2025 社羣通話

Laur

Question is asked the same question, really. There are a bunch of other things which I consider as important, which are not quite as large, but also complex. For example, better font handling across the board, like there's bunch of open issues with regards to font selection, font fallback, warnings, loading fonts from files, bundling fonts with packages or templates. So there's a lot of design space to be explored there, but it is quite important. Okay, what is the vision of the Typst Universe package approval process? Long term, especially as the amount of packages and updates would increase over time?

實際上，這個問題和之前問的差不多。還有一些我認為很重要，但規模沒那麼大，但也比較複雜的事情。比如，全面提升字型處理能力，像字型選擇、字型回退、警告、從檔案載入字型、將字型與包或模板捆綁等方面，都存在很多未解決的問題。這方面有很多設計空間可以探索，而且非常重要。好的，Typst Universe 包的審批流程的願景是什麼？特別是長期來看，隨著包的數量和更新的增加？

Reknih

Yes, that's definitely something we've discussed. And in the team, the question is to like, to what extent, for example, do you can involve AI? We think that ultimately human review will be required to meet the requirements such as Typst Universe, especially the naming requirements. But we want to automate more of the process and we want to move into a model where some authors with like a good track record have a certain level of trust and can, for example, publish updates rapidly without blocking on human review.

是的，這絕對是我們討論過的事情。團隊內部的問題是，比如，在多大程度上可以引入 AI？我們認為，最終仍然需要人工稽覈來滿足 Typst Universe 的要求，特別是命名要求。但我們希望更多地自動化這個過程，並希望轉向一種模式，即一些擁有良好記錄的作者可以獲得一定程度的信任，例如，可以快速釋出更新，而無需等待人工稽覈。

Laur

Especially for updates. Yeah, I think we could make that faster for initial. I think in general, the naming rule has been a success. People might have different opinions on that, but I personally consider it a success. I would say it's a larger success for packages than for templates, especially for templates, lots of templates are just the descriptive name with the prefix modern.

特別是對於更新來說。是的，我認為我們可以讓初始設定更快。總的來說，我認為命名規則是成功的。人們可能對此有不同的看法，但我個人認為它是成功的。我想說它在包方面比在模板方面更成功，尤其是對於模板來說，很多模板只是帶有字首“modern”的描述性名稱。

Reknih

Yeah, that's a bit of a disaster. But yes.

嗯，那確實有點糟糕。不過是的。

Laur

it's a bit defeating the purpose of the thing. Not really since but there still isn't one canonical package versus which is the point of the rule. But yeah, it's not great, but. Yeah, overall. Well, I could, I could imagine. I mean, and I also some thoughts on this, but right now it's already pretty automated. And we also want to have a custom basically website to submit packages in the future, gotta moving away from GitHub. And then aside from the name, there really isn't that much that needs to be checked manually. So I think the process can be scaled without basically not being true to its core anymore.

這有點違背了初衷。倒也不是說完全違背，因為仍然沒有一個規範的軟體包，而這正是規則的意義所在。但總的來說，情況不太好。嗯，我可以想象。我的意思是，我對此也有一些想法，但現在它已經相當自動化了。而且我們將來也想擁有一個定製的網站來提交軟體包，從而擺脫 GitHub。然後，除了名稱之外，實際上沒有太多需要手動檢查的東西。所以我認為這個過程是可以擴充的，而不會背離其核心。

Reknih

Yeah, and one thing that will make us migrate away from the repository eventually is not only that the number of package submissions is growing, but also the size of that repository is growing. And at some point, it becomes untenable to keep it in Git.

最終促使我們放棄這個倉庫的原因，不僅是提交的軟體包數量在增長，而且倉庫的規模也在增長。在某個時候，用 Git 維護它變得難以為繼。

Laur

Yeah, greetings to next packages.

祝賀下一個軟體包。

Laur

Okay?

好嗎？

Laur

Yeah, maybe. Imagine you can take this one with a journalist.

也許吧。想象一下，你可以和記者一起討論這件事。

Reknih

Yeah, so right now we're working, started working together with a publisher and larger publisher in Scandinavia was not only publishing scientifically, but sort of across the board to work on a Typst enabled process. And that will be an interesting case study. What we think is that the typst adoption in the sciences basically needs to come bottom up. We think that Typst it is and should be adopted first for teaching, for theses, for tech reports, and for submissions where users publish camera ready documents and that only then there is leverage and demand in the community that allows us to approach publishers. So that's like from the social engineering side and also from the technical side and being a compelling proposition to the publishers.

好的，所以現在我們正在和一家出版商合作，是斯堪的納維亞半島一家比較大的出版商，他們不僅出版科學類書籍，也出版其他型別的書籍，一起合作開發一個支援 Typst 的流程。這將會是一個有趣的案例研究。我們認為 Typst 在科學領域的應用基本上需要自下而上地進行。我們認為 Typst 應該首先被用於教學、論文、技術報告以及使用者提交相機就緒文件的場景，只有這樣，社羣中才會有足夠的推動力和需求，從而使我們能夠與出版商進行合作。所以這是從社會工程的角度來看，同時也是從技術的角度來看，使其成為對出版商有吸引力的提議。

Reknih

As businesses, we think that we want to flesh out HTML's support and bring it out of the experimental stage so that doing submissions and is really compelling with regards to multi-channel channel, independent publishing, and getting a web version of a paper right away. And that could bring the publisher a tangible benefit. And at that time, it's a survival for us to approach them to do deals. I don't think that currently work manpower is best invested in approaching publishers because I think those projects have quite long lease cycles.

作為企業，我們認為我們應該完善對 HTML 的支援，並使其脫離實驗階段，以便在多渠道、獨立釋出和立即獲得論文的 Web 版本方面，提交內容真正具有吸引力。這可以為出版商帶來切實的利益。到那時，為了生存，我們需要與他們達成協議。我認為目前投入人力去接觸出版商並不是最佳選擇，因為我認為這些專案的週期相當長。

Laur

Whereas one quick interruption. I think we learned from the previous multi calls is that not just we, but also you want a bit more interactivity? It's quite a frontal right now. So if you want to speak at any point in time, you can just request to speak and then you can also just tell us your question or tell us your opinion so that we can have a bit of more of a discussion here. Only if you don't do that, we will just continue to read the Q&A.

剛才有個小小的打斷。我想我們從之前的多次會議中瞭解到，不僅僅是我們，你們也希望有更多的互動性？現在這種形式有點像單方面的演講。所以如果你想在任何時候發言，你可以請求發言，然後你也可以直接告訴我們你的問題或你的意見，這樣我們就可以進行更多的討論。如果你們不這樣做，我們就只能繼續讀問答環節的內容了。

Reknih

so for example Adrik has raised their hand. Hey, Adrik?

比如，Adrik 舉手了。嘿，Adrik，你好嗎？

Laur

Yes, let's mute.

讓我們靜音。

Reknih

Request him to unmute. If I can do that on Discord, I don't think so. Yes.

請求他取消靜音。如果我能在 Discord 上做到，我想應該也可以在這裡做到。是的。

Adrik Ivanov

yes, okay. So I have also posted it on Slido, but, you said that there is warichū or whatever in the roadmap. So as far as I know, what is like Japanese and CJK annotation for text, kind of like the footnotes and also Ruby and then some, no, something relating to Japanese typesetting. How far along in the development process is it going to take to get a point, the CJK typesetting things, CJKV?

好的。我也在 Slido 上釋出了，但是，你說路線圖裡有割注之類的東西。據我所知，那是指日語和 CJK 文字的註釋，有點像腳註和 Ruby，還有一些與日語排版相關的東西。

Laur

So, what we, what I can say is that we have this is maybe also an announcement.

要到什麼程度的開發過程才能實現 CJK 排版，CJKV？我們可以說——這也許也是一個公告……

Laur

We will hire a new Rust developer, full time Rust developer soon. Thanks to external funding from a company that we will also disclose soon, I think. And CJK will probably not be their first focus, but I think this could be a focus. So right now we're just quite stretched for resources. But once that person is more, basically. Involved in the project then, I could imagine, for example, making CJK a priority there. So I really can't give a time frame, but I would say in the medium term, it is definitely a priority.

我們很快會聘請一位新的全職 Rust 開發者。感謝一家公司的外部資助，我們也會盡快公佈這家公司。CJK 可能不會是他們首要關注的重點，但我認為這可以成為一個重點。所以現在我們的資源非常緊張。但是一旦那個人更多地參與到專案中，我就可以想象，例如，將 CJK 作為優先事項。所以我真的無法給出時間表，但我想說，在中期，這絕對是一個優先事項。

Reknih

Yeah, and what I also want to say in terms of CJK is that we are really dependent on the community for the moment since we do not have any native speakers of any CJK language or even a second language speakers of a CJK language on our team. So we don't really know firsthand what the conventions are. And I think we've got a few amazing contributors in the community. For example, around Tinymist, where a lot of the community members contributing there are from China. And then also in the main compiler repo, and that we are dependent on the input and export. And I would say that if you're a resident of either France or Germany, then you should keep your eyes peeled if you want to join us as a full time developer for Rust in our team and, um, we will post a job posting here on our Discord and it will be visible on GitHub and on our web page as well.

是的，關於 CJK（中日韓統一表意文字），我想說的是，目前我們非常依賴社羣，因為我們的團隊中沒有任何以 CJK 語言為母語的人，甚至沒有以 CJK 語言為第二語言的人。所以我們並不真正瞭解第一手的慣例。我認為我們在社羣裡有一些很棒的貢獻者。例如，在 Tinymist 方面，很多貢獻者都來自中國。然後在主編譯器倉庫中，我們也依賴於大家的輸入和輸出。我想說，如果你是法國或德國的居民，如果你想加入我們的團隊，成為 Rust 的全職開發者，請密切關注，我們將在 Discord 上釋出招聘資訊，GitHub 和我們的網頁上也會顯示。

Laur

I mean this is a small ad ad segment. This is will be the dream open source job because we are contractually obliged because this wrote a sponsors that the person only works on open source stuff.

這是一個小小的廣告環節。這將是夢想中的開源工作，因為我們有合同義務，因為我們的贊助商規定這個人只能從事開源工作。

Reknih

Exactly and in the chat with regards to only hiring in Benelux, only hiring in Germany and France or and not in Benelux, they say speakers, we have our payroll setups for Germany and France and really for each European country. You need your own payrolls accountant and we are not in the business of collecting payroll accountants now and hiring outside of the European Union is even more complicated. And ultimately, that's money we want to pay as a salary and not to some third party accountant.

沒錯，在聊天中，關於只在比荷盧經濟聯盟、德國和法國招聘，或者不在比荷盧經濟聯盟招聘的問題，他們說，我們的工資系統是為德國和法國設定的，實際上每個歐洲國家都需要自己的工資單會計，而我們現在不做收集工資單會計的事情，而且在歐盟以外招聘就更復雜了。最終，我們希望把錢作為工資支付，而不是給第三方會計。

Laur

If another person that had requested to speak. Shockjaw? I'll invite you to the stage.

如果還有其他人想發言——Shockjaw？我會邀請你上臺。

Shockjaw

Thanks, I appreciate you dragging me up here.

謝謝，感謝你把我拉上來。

Shockjaw

One thing I am kind of curious about, is the potential roadmap for tagged PDFs for like accessibility requirements and other fun stuff like. What that roadmap may look like?

我有點好奇的一件事是，帶標籤的 PDF 的潛在路線圖，比如可訪問性要求和其他有趣的東西。這個路線圖可能是什麼樣的？

Laur

Yeah, so the first thing that will need to happen, but to make this journey start is that the outstanding pull request and to migrate Typst to killer needs to be completed and merged. So this is something that Laur also Laurenz, like me, is working on. He's also in the call. That is also sort of a bit blocked on me, but this is definitely something we want to get done for v0.14. And then hopefully we'll also start with tagging. v0.14 will most likely not have and full support that we can really confidently say tagged true, but we will start and then hopefully continue over the next release or releases. But it is alongside HTML the top priority on the compiler side. I'm curious. I'm curious whether you have had requirements for tech PDF or whether you're just an accessibility enthusiast.

好的，要開始這個過程，首先需要完成併合並待處理的 pull request，將 Typst 遷移到 killer。Laur，也就是 Laurenz，和我都在做這件事，他也在這次會議中。這件事也稍微卡在我這裡了，但我們肯定想在 v0.14 版本中完成。然後希望我們也能開始使用 tagging。v0.14 版本很可能不會有完整的支援，讓我們能自信地說 tagging 為 true，但我們會開始，然後希望在接下來的一個或多個版本中繼續。但在編譯器方面，它與 HTML 一起是最優先事項。我很好奇_我想知道你是否有對 tagged PDF 的需求，或者你只是一個無障礙愛好者。

Shockjaw

As a part of my government work, yes. PDF 2/A requirements are part of it.

作為我政府工作的一部分，是的，PDF 2/A 是其中一部分要求。

Laur

An arduous requirement nonetheless.

儘管如此，這仍然是一個艱鉅的要求。

Reknih

Yeah, sounds like a lot of things are coming off the back of HTML support, which I'm quite stoked about. Exactly, and we also have a contributor contributing, as Laurence said, new PDF stag. So there should be a lot of work on tech PDF coming from that as well.

是的，聽起來很多東西都是基於 HTML 支援而來的，我對此感到非常興奮。沒錯，正如勞倫斯所說，我們還有一位貢獻者在貢獻新的 PDF 功能。因此，在 tagged PDF 方面應該會有很多工作。

Laur

Yeah, it should take credit, but purchase Duo. I think this is the larger thing that enables this now than the HTML work. All right?

是的，……。我認為這比 HTML ……

Reknih

Exactly, and okay, exactly. You can just request to speak and otherwise we'll keep the storytel in the slider and we'll send an email to the speaker who has with their session and if they come online of they should request to speak. That's the ERP talk. And if not, we'll continue with the call as we are right now.

沒錯，好的，沒錯。你可以直接申請發言，否則我們會保持故事在幻燈片中，我們會給會議的發言人傳送郵件，如果他們上線，他們應該申請發言。這是 ERP 的討論。如果沒有，我們將像現在這樣繼續通話。

Reknih

All right, do we dive into the next top right question? Or do we have .

好的，我們直接開始下一個右上角的問題嗎？還是說…

Laur

the third one done? Because the one, so I don't think we have current numbers, but if you want to have a rough idea where we add, then you can go to YouTube and watch the video of Martin's keynotes he gave at the Typst's Berlin meet where some of these numbers are.

第三個做完了嗎？因為那個，所以我不認為我們有最新的資料，但如果你想大致瞭解我們在哪裡增加，你可以去 YouTube 觀看 Martin 在 Typst 柏林聚會上發表的主題演講影片，裡面有一些資料。

Reknih

I can just that we have about 10K weekly active users in the web app and that the growth trajectory has recovered from Christmas. And that growth, especially around Typst 0.13 as well, is quite dynamic at the moment.

我可以說我們在 Web 應用中大約有 1 萬名周活躍使用者，並且增長軌跡已經從聖誕節恢復。而且，尤其是在 Typst 0.13 版本釋出前後，增長勢頭目前非常強勁。

Laur

All right, would CeTZ has to be a package level? Typst have some high level capabilities like that directly?

好的，CeTZ 必須是包級別的嗎？Typst 是否有一些類似的高階功能可以直接使用？

Reknih

Um, I think I think question marks betray a French speaker.

嗯，我想問號暴露了法語使用者的身份。

Laur

Yes, definitely, you can always see a French speaker online, But so, so I, what I want to in the medium term is not replacing CeTZ, I think.

是的，當然，你總能在網上看到說法語的人。但所以，我中期想做的不是替換 CeTZ。

Laur

That is not the right direction to go in, but rather to have more useful primitives that packages like CeTZ can use. Right now, they really have to do a lot of basically working around the compiler or shipping complex things. At least that's my understanding of it. So for example, the for the path function, the old one, which is not duplicated, didn't allow for multiscale point path, which is a pain.

那不是正確的方向，而是應該有更多有用的原語，像 CeTZ 這樣的包可以使用。現在，他們真的必須做很多基本上是繞過編譯器或者釋出複雜的東西。至少我理解的是這樣。所以例如，對於路徑函式，舊的那個，沒有被複制的那個，不允許使用多尺度點路徑，這很麻煩。

Laur

And I could also imagine having things like polygon intersections or binary shape operations natively in typst and better alignment primitives. But it would be more the drawing side and maybe even a bit more low level than CeTZ. Then we do not plan to have plotting built into Typst anymore. Like we had that on our website for a while, but we have removed that. I think that's best left to packages and it's cool that packages can do so many things without having to build everything in.

我還可以想象在 Typst 中原生支援多邊形相交或二元形狀運算，以及更好的對齊原語。但這更多的是繪圖方面，甚至可能比 CeTZ 更底層一點。我們不打算在 Typst 中內建繪圖功能了。就像我們之前在網站上放了一段時間，但我們已經刪除了。我認為最好留給包來做，而且包可以在不必構建所有東西的情況下做這麼多事情，這很酷。

Reknih

And I also think that, especially with Typst upcoming, if you have seen, for example, make sense's talk about Lilac at the meetup and he's working on that. Yeah, definitely a definitely watch that because it's a great talk. And second of all, I think that with plotting libraries in the community, there can be some competition about API design and stuff. And it's a more dynamic space in which it's easier to like iterate on these giant API surfaces.

而且我也認為，特別是隨著 Typst 的發展，如果你看過，比如說，make sense 在 meetup 上關於 Lilac 的演講，他正在做那個。是的，絕對值得一看，因為那是個很棒的演講。其次，我認為社羣中的繪相簿在 API 設計等方面可能會存在一些競爭。這是一個更具活力的領域，更容易在這些巨大的 API 表面上進行迭代。

Laur

You see that even just with our official templates, which sadly, less well maintained than many community or let's say the good community templates, our packages, I think spreading things out of the community is good because it just gives just a larger space to the mass stuff, people working on stuff and coming up with stuff.

你可以看到，即使是我們的官方模板，很遺憾，它們的維護不如許多社羣模板，或者說好的社羣模板、我們的包。我認為將事情分散到社羣中是件好事，因為它只是給大眾提供了更大的空間，讓人們可以做事情、想出東西。

Reknih

All right? Then I think we have a speaker request, and I'll invite whomever had that request to stage or no, they've withdrawn their request. This is your opportunity to read request to go to stage. Otherwise, I think we'll move on with the questions.

好的嗎？然後我認為我們有一個演講者請求，我會邀請提出請求的人上臺，或者不，他們已經撤回了請求。這是你提出上臺請求的機會。否則，我想我們將繼續提問。

Reknih

Right?

是嗎？

Laur

I guess.

我猜是的。

Reknih

questions. I guess our balance columns are short term goal. If you ask me, they are. I have, yes, yes, and unfortunately, Laurenz is a compiler tech lead, so unless I have been told that in principle they are easy, but there are few annoying edge cases which I don't want to think about right now, not ever.

問題。我猜我們的平衡列是短期目標。如果你問我，它們是。我有，是的，是的，但不幸的是，Laurenz 是一個編譯器技術負責人，所以除非有人告訴我原則上它們很容易，但有一些煩人的邊緣情況，我現在不想考慮，甚至永遠不想考慮。

Reknih

Yeah, the last part maybe wasn't entirely truthful.

嗯，最後一部分可能不完全是實話。

Laur

I think the right time for balance comes might have been 0.12 because it's fits with all these relay out things we did then. So that would have deleted even further. In principle? It is not super complex, I think, but it is definitely tricky because it involves relayer to balance things out. And I don't want to really want to drag the focus away from HTML and PDF right now. Yeah.

我覺得平衡的最佳時機可能是 0.12 版本，因為它與我們當時做的所有這些重排版的東西相吻合。所以這可能會進一步刪除。原則上來說，它不是超級複雜，我認為，但它絕對很棘手，因為它涉及到重排版來平衡。而且我現在真的不想把注意力從 HTML 和 PDF 上移開。是的。

Reknih

and I'd say that tax point 12 was like a giant a cycle thriller because the release cycle was so fucking long. We wanted to ship and like two months before the release, we thought we could ship, We could cut the release in 10 days.

我覺得 Typst 12 就像一部巨大的週期驚悚片，因為釋出週期太他媽長了。我們想釋出，在釋出前兩個月，我們認為可以釋出，我們可以在 10 天內完成釋出。

Laur

Try refactoring footnotes and making them work in a new layout engine. Another the constant block of release.

嘗試重構腳註，使其在新佈局引擎中工作。另一個是持續不斷的釋出障礙。

Reknih

like. Like for example, like my family is like, what's what's happening at Typst? So we are working on footnotes, but we're working on footnotes. Four months ago, I was like, yes.

比如，比如，我的家人會問，Typst 進展如何？所以我們正在研究腳註，但我們已經在研究腳註了。四個月前，我就覺得快完成了。

Laur

Anyway, so balanced columns, I would say are a medium priority. Probably not 0.14, maybe 0.15. It's...

總之，我認為平衡列是一箇中等優先順序的功能。可能不會在 0.14 版本中釋出，也許會在 0.15 版本中。

Reknih

Yeah, it can excuse for me personally, after this call.

好的，對我個人來說，這次通話結束後可以請假。

Laur

And if someone wants to step up, I think that is possible, but tricky. So I'm definitely open to it. But to step up for this, you would basically need to get your mind into this whole relay out thing, maybe read the layout blog post I wrote, and maybe start a discussion in the layout forge. And then it can be done as a community contribution. Otherwise it we'll need to wait for one more one or two releases.

如果有人想主動承擔，我認為這是可能的，但很棘手。所以我對此持開放態度。但要主動承擔這件事，你基本上需要全身心投入到整個佈局相關的事情中，也許可以讀一下我寫的佈局部落格文章，也許可以在佈局的 forge 中發起討論。這樣就可以作為社羣貢獻來完成。否則，我們需要再等一到兩個版本。

Reknih

Yeah, and I hear that Tinger has a water situation on his hands in the chat, so I would like to extend my excuses for being too entertaining on this call. I see that that wasn't expected.

好的，我聽說 Tinger 在聊天中遇到了問題，所以我想為我在這次通話中過於活躍而道歉。我看到這是意料之外的。

Laur

The whole point.

重點就在於此。

Reknih

I think, I think that was the whole point. Entertaining sexy people and preparing 5 minutes before. Yes, em, but you can see that since our speakers aren't here, by the way, if you are the speaker for Typst in an ERP session, again, if you're join now, no problem, please request this week. Let's move on to the next operated question. Directory Walking would be awesome for the next version. I have a few use cases for dynamically passing files in my project dictionary directory. Laurenz, Does directory walking violate the guarantees that Typst give to its users or is it okay since in the project dictionary directory.

我覺得，我覺得這就是重點。讓性感的人娛樂，並在 5 分鐘前準備。是的，嗯，但你可以看到，因為我們的演講者不在這裡，順便說一句，如果你是 Typst 在 ERP 會議上的演講者，再說一遍，如果你現在加入，沒問題，請在本週提出請求。讓我們繼續下一個操作問題。目錄遍歷對於下一個版本來說會很棒。我有一些用例，可以在我的專案目錄中動態傳遞檔案。Laurenz，目錄遍歷是否違反了 Typst 給使用者的保證，或者在專案目錄中是否可以？

Laur

it doesn't violate anything? It needs to have a good interface and in the compiler, basically, and it needs to have a good interface in the language, which is basically two design problems. And if I remember correctly, there is a bunch of discussion around that already on GitHub, and we decided that it is blocked on a path type because if you basically just have a walk or whatever function, then you can't really distinguish well between files and directories. And with a path type, that would be a bit nicer. The path type is something that I definitely also want to ship soon.

它沒有違反任何東西，是嗎？它需要在編譯器中有一個好的介面，基本上，並且需要在語言中有一個好的介面，這基本上是兩個設計問題。如果我沒記錯的話，GitHub 上已經有很多關於這方面的討論了，我們認為它被路徑型別阻塞了，因為如果你只是有一個 `walk` 或者其他什麼函式，你就不能很好地區分檔案和目錄。有了路徑型別，會更好一些。路徑型別也是我肯定想盡快釋出的東西。

Reknih

I'm not sure the next one after. Basically, the whole path situation also plugs into yielding, for example, multiple files out of one Typst document when doing HTML export. So you have like multiple HTML document I can link to each other that you can navigate between. That's one of the things we want to do, for example, to switch our internal documentation systems payload to Typst, either standalone or integrated into our web framework. And path type is maybe a part of the puzzle there, or at least a related topic.

我不確定下一個是什麼。基本上，整個路徑的情況也與 yielding 有關，例如，在進行 HTML 匯出時，從一個 Typst 文件中匯出多個檔案。所以你有多個 HTML 文件，它們可以相互連結，你可以在它們之間導航。這是我們想做的事情之一，例如，將我們的內部文件系統 payload 切換到 Typst，無論是獨立的還是整合到我們的 Web 框架中。路徑型別可能是其中的一部分，或者至少是一個相關的話題。

Laur

Yeah. And the path type...

是的。而且路徑型別...

Reknih

...

Laur

...thought of prepared a bit?

...想好了準備一下嗎？

Reknih

The last with...

Laur

The deprecation of the path function, because I didn't just want to swap it out.

路徑函式的棄用，因為我不想直接替換它。

Reknih

And I just wanted to answer the second post. I voted questions since it's so similar to what we've answered before, which is what will be the focus of the next release? And we've all already talked about it a lot. So the focus will be improvements through HTML export like asked and PDF accessibility, as well as like some standards, in particular PDF/UA-1 and PDF/H too, eh.

我只是想回答第二個帖子。我投了重複問題，因為它和我們之前回答過的問題非常相似，也就是下一個版本的重點是什麼？我們都已經討論過很多次了。所以重點將是透過 HTML 匯出的改進，比如提問和 PDF 可訪問性，以及一些標準，特別是 PDF/UA-1 和 PDF/H too。

Laur

Once again, the reminder... This is exactly what I'm talking about. The reminder that if you request to speak, you get protein treatment in response to the questions because we prefer to not speak into the void.

再次提醒...這正是我要說的。提醒一下，如果你請求發言，你會得到針對問題的優先處理，因為我們不喜歡對著空氣說話。

Reknih

Yes? Welcome back.

是嗎？歡迎回來。

Reknih

Yeah. Thanks for round 2. So I guess mine's a little bit more specific. I've noticed that quarto is kind of taking a liking to Typst for PDF exports. Are there more conversations with Posit as a whole for and...

好的，感謝第二輪。我覺得我的問題可能更具體一些。我注意到 Quarto 似乎越來越喜歡用 Typst 來匯出 PDF 了。那麼，和 Posit 整體之間，是否有更多關於……的討論？

Pachi

maybe hopefully funding. Who knows?

也許能拿到資金，誰知道呢？

Laur

This is the time to mention that Posit is the company that will sponsors of the full of time road.

現在是時候提一下，Posit 公司將會贊助全職的 Road 專案。

Reknih

Haha, I figured.

我猜到了。

Reknih

Yeah.

Reknih

And so first of all, thank to them for their support. And second of all, I feel like with their contribution Quatro's needs will have like a direct connection with them and going forward we will have regular syngaps with posets team Carlos from Caro in particular. So if there's something they need, certainly input they are entitled to give.

首先，感謝他們的支援。其次，我覺得有了他們的貢獻，Quatro 的需求會和他們直接聯絡起來，未來我們會和 Posets 團隊定期進行同步，特別是和 Caro 的 Carlos。所以如果他們有什麼需要，當然有權提出意見。

Laur

Then, since somebody else requested to speak, we can continue in the slido. Revoke route update. Yeah, so I think that fits into a general like to the styling topic. There are a bunch of things I don't really like about the styling system. For example, how default `show`, `set` rules work, basically that if you write show heading and then replace it with something entirely else, it's still bold. This was sort of a side effect of the way we changed.

既然有人要求發言，我們可以繼續處理 Slido。撤銷路由更新。是的，我認為這屬於一個更廣泛的樣式主題。我對樣式系統有很多不喜歡的地方。例如，預設的`show`、`set`規則的工作方式，基本上如果你寫了 show heading，然後用完全不同的東西替換它，它仍然是粗體。這是我們改變方式的副作用。

Laur

It will definitely become a topic again. But not for 0.14. It also ties in with custom elements because for custom elements of the hacks that we have in the compiler, we will need decide whether we expose them or not. For example, we have this locatable annotation on elements in the compiler that basically says, does this work with query? And the reason this exists is because making everything locatable is just not really feasible in the current implementation is too expensive. Our custom, some elements. I don't want to have a locatable annotation, so we'll need to figure something out. And this is also part of the reason why custom elements are for key. Next question is custom elements when we already answered that.

這肯定會再次成為一個話題。但不是在 0.14 版本。它也與自定義元素有關，因為對於編譯器中我們所做的自定義元素 hack，我們需要決定是否公開它們。例如，我們在編譯器中的元素上有一個可定位的註解，它基本上說明了這個元素是否能與 query 一起使用？之所以存在這個註解，是因為在當前的實現中，讓所有東西都可定位實際上是不可行的，成本太高了。我們的自定義元素，我不想有一個可定位的註解，所以我們需要想出一些辦法。這也是自定義元素是 key 的原因之一。下一個問題是自定義元素，我們已經回答過了。

Reknih

yeah.

Reknih

And I want to, I just have had a look at the questions that are done there. And I want to pull one up because we already sort of talked about it. Yes UA will be a focus for the next release.

我想，我只是看了一下那裡提出的問題。我想挑一個出來，因為我們已經討論過了。是的，UA 將是下一個版本的重點。

Reknih

And one thing that I want to add to the whole European regulation, I think, yeah, there's upcoming regulation for accessible documents the Americans cited for a while and the Americans with it. AB, this act, otherwise known as Ada. But there's another piece of European regulation that is upcoming, which is that electronic invoicing will be compulsory for B2B transactions. And that means that you PDF file basically contains an attachment XML file that is machine readable and describes your invoice. And largely thanks to contribution PDF, embedding any file as a feature that shipped in 0.1. But we're still missing the last puzzle piece, which is amending the Pdf's metadata stream such that it says, hey I'm an invoice. And that's something that could certainly ship in a PDF focus release.

我想補充一點關於整個歐洲監管的，我認為，是的，即將出臺關於無障礙文件的法規，美國人引用了一段時間，還有美國的 AB 法案，也就是 Ada。但還有一項即將出臺的歐洲法規，即電子發票將成為 B2B 交易的強制要求。這意味著你的 PDF 檔案基本上包含一個附件 XML 檔案，該檔案是機器可讀的，並描述了你的發票。很大程度上要感謝 PDF 的貢獻，嵌入任何檔案都是 0.1 版本中的一個功能。但我們仍然缺少最後一塊拼圖，那就是修改 PDF 的後設資料流，使其宣告，嘿，我是一張發票。這肯定可以在 PDF 重點版本中釋出。

Laur

Okay, so on the question of which breaking changes you would like to do, if you had something to change the Typst right now, what would it be so? I have an old message in the Discord server about that, and part of it is still applicable. So let me just link that in the chat, A bunch of it would maybe be a bit different though, but some of these things I still would like to change, but they're just so, so large breaking changes that we sort of have to bundle them to not make it a horrible experience.

好的，關於你想做的重大更改的問題，如果你現在要更改 Typst，你會改什麼？我在 Discord 伺服器上有一條關於此的舊訊息，其中一部分仍然適用。讓我把它連結到聊天中，其中很多可能有點不同，但其中一些東西我仍然想改變，但它們是如此巨大的重大更改，以至於我們必須將它們捆綁在一起，才不會造成糟糕的體驗。

Laur

Okay, will it be possible to write tabs universe readme of packages in types?

好的，是否可以用 Typst 編寫關於包的 tabs universe 自述檔案？

Reknih

I would say that it's safe to say that yes, once HTML export is more mature.

我認為可以肯定地說，是的，一旦 HTML 匯出更加成熟。

Reknih

And have you considered? Yeah.

你考慮過嗎？嗯。

Laur

the list is old. Not all of the things in the list are accurate. I just didn't want to make a new list now because I don't have any.

這個列表有點舊了，裡面的東西不完全準確。我只是現在不想重新做一個新的列表，因為我手頭沒有。

Reknih

What.

Laur

and I don't have a new list, That's what I want to say because that was not English.

我沒有新的列表，我想說的是這個，因為剛才說的不是英語。

Reknih

yeah. All right, let's go for the next question. Have you considered a way to give more? Version compatibility, Just compiler version and all other packages. I would like to maybe invite the guy.

好的。我們來看下一個問題。有沒有考慮過提供更多的版本相容性？比如編譯器版本和所有其他包的版本。我想邀請一下這位朋友。

Laur

And so many of them became breaking with Evers. And I was wondering if there would be maybe a way to define a maximum version... compatibility version with Typst or something that could be useful.

很多包在最新版 break 掉了。我在想是否有可能定義一個與 Typst 的最大版本相容性或類似的東西，這可能會有用。

Laur

This has come up a bunch of times, but it's sort of tricky because if you put it in your Typst ???, you basically didn't look into the future, right?

這個問題已經出現過很多次了，但這有點棘手，因為如果你把它放在你的 Typst ???中，你基本上沒有考慮到未來，對吧？

Lord

Yeah. That's the issue. And so I was just wondering if you had maybe discussed of a system that could work for this, because I saw there was an issue on GitHub, I think that was closed for the reason you just said.

是的。這就是問題所在。所以我只是想知道你們是否討論過一個可行的系統，因為我看到GitHub上有一個問題，我認為是因為你剛才說的原因而被關閉的。

Laur

I think the only way I can see doing it is having this metadata externally somehow in Typst Universe. But what I dislike about that, I don't really want the compiler to make choices depending on separate metadata that doesn't come with a package, because the package doesn't necessarily come from type universe. It should come from a directory or somewhere else. I think a better way to go about this is to have. I'm not quite sure whether I would have this in the compiler, but definitely in things like Tinymist and the web app now just to upgrade packages. And we could we have like a warning. Oh, this package is outdated. Perhaps try updating it if there's an error.

我覺得我能想到的唯一方法是在 Typst Universe 中以某種方式外部儲存這些後設資料。 但我不喜歡這樣，我真的不希望編譯器根據與包不在一起的單獨後設資料做出選擇，因為包不一定來自 type universe。 它應該來自一個目錄或其他地方。 我認為更好的方法是擁有。 我不太確定是否應該在編譯器中加入這個，但肯定會在 Tinymist 和 Web 應用程式中加入，以便升級軟體包。 我們可以發出一個警告，例如“哦，這個軟體包已過期。 如果出現錯誤，請嘗試更新它。”

Reknih

I was in a culture talk with someone who was using the Springer paper templates. So Springer paper template, basically. And she said, oh, it's not compatible with Typst 0.13 because it didn't updated...

我當時在和一個使用 Springer 論文模板的人進行文化交流。就是 Springer 論文模板。她說，哦，它與 Typst 0.13 不相容，因為它沒有更新……

Reknih

Says I could imagine that we introduced a new package submission process. Typst could be aware of the test suit offer package Typst could be aware of, all right there examples. And new readme and we need those to compile. And if they stop compiling, then Typst Universe will start like graying out the package and displaying a warning. This thing is not compatible with the latest Typst version. So basically that would mean a problem each release, rerunning acceptance shapes against the packages and marking the packages that don't pass as not compatible.

我覺得我們可以設想一下，引入一個新的包提交流程。Typst 可以知道測試套件，提供包 Typst 可以知道的例子，都在那裡。還有新的 readme，我們需要它們能夠編譯。如果它們停止編譯，那麼 Typst Universe 就會開始灰顯該包並顯示警告，提示此包與最新的 Typst 版本不相容。所以基本上，這意味著每次釋出都會出現問題，需要針對這些包重新執行驗收形狀測試，並將未透過測試的包標記為不相容。

Laur

Well, I think there's a bunch of things we can do, but ideally outside of the compiler. Thank you?

嗯，我認為我們可以做很多事情，但理想情況下是在編譯器之外。謝謝？

Laur

Because there'd be a place like Typst Universe that store showcase of article projects written in Typst.

因為會有一個像 Typst Universe 這樣的地方，儲存用 Typst 編寫的文章專案的展示。

Reknih

Yeah, which I just wanted to say, this is a place like this on a forum. I think it's less discoverable than Universe, the showcase category on the forum. But in principle, you can go there and post and it's meant for things like this. Exactly, so let me just bring up the link. Or. Yeah exactly. Yeah.

是的，我只是想說，論壇上也有類似的地方。我認為它不如 Universe 那麼容易被發現，論壇上的展示類別也是如此。但原則上，你可以去那裡發帖，它是為類似的事情準備的。沒錯，讓我把連結發出來。或者，是的，沒錯。

Laur

something you could do is have Typst Universe be a bit more of a hub to explore other things like showcasing the forum and stuff. That's the way it was intended. That's where it's called the Typst Universe.

你可以做的是讓 Typst Universe 成為一箇中心，去探索其他東西，比如展示論壇之類的。這才是它原本的意圖。這就是它被稱為 Typst Universe 的原因。

Reknih

Yeah, and we could definitely do that. And maybe also if the person who has asked the question has some more input on what they've thought about then. They can come up to the stage or maybe put it in the chat so we can have a better idea.

是的，我們肯定可以這樣做。也許如果提問者對他們的想法有更多的補充，他們可以上臺或者在聊天中提出，這樣我們就能更好地瞭解情況。

Laur

Is this person telling you the farm is down right now from from 10 people clicking on it or no?

這個人告訴你現在伺服器宕機是因為有 10 個人點選它造成的嗎？還是什麼原因？

Reknih

I fucking hate Discourse. I fucking hate her so much. Just let me control the cubes real quick.

我真他媽討厭 Discourse，我太討厭它了。讓我趕緊控制一下這些立方體。

Laur

Okay, for me it is sort of working. It's just slow.

好吧，對我來說，它算是能用，就是有點慢。

Reknih

Yeah, it...

Laur

seems that it's really, it's really sad, like it's not, not a lot of people.

感覺有點慘，好像沒多少人。

Reknih

Yeah, it's said it is wet and weird. Yeah, let's not talk about it.

好的，他們說它又溼又怪。 好的，我們別談這個了。

Laur

I mean, there are large discourse forums. I don't know whether we're doing something wrong, but .

我的意思是，有很多大型討論論壇。 我不知道我們是不是做錯了什麼，但是...

Reknih

I'm don't know how they do it. They must run it on like the fucking...

我不知道他們是怎麼做到的。他們肯定是在跑，就像那個...

Laur

Microsoft Mariana 1.

微軟的 Mariana 1。

Reknih

Yes, that's a quantum chip for everyone who hasn't seen, and it really does have a name that is almost as ridiculous. But enough renting about this course. Let's, em.

是的，這是一個量子晶片，給那些還沒見過的人看的，而且它的名字確實也很離譜。不過關於這個課程的吐槽就到此為止吧。我們，嗯。

Laur

This is a nice question. Who are the current team members and what do they each work on? So I can start? I'm working on the compiler as the core compiler developer. Martin can continue.

這是個好問題。目前的團隊成員有哪些，他們各自負責什麼工作？我可以先開始嗎？我作為核心編譯器開發者，正在研究編譯器。Martin 可以繼續。

Reknih

Yeah I'm working on the web app and the home page and I'm currently go working on the brand a bit too and making the homepage better. So that's exciting.

是的，我正在開發 Web 應用程式和主頁，目前也在做一些品牌方面的工作，並改進主頁。這很令人興奮。

PgSuper

Well I'm working on a compiler and I mostly work on layout stuff. Or you might have seen like some features like line numbers simple, which was a very unexpected feature. And I see the lots of work on tables. For me, the tables guy.

我正在研究編譯器，主要負責佈局方面的工作。或者你可能見過一些功能，比如行號，這算是個非常出乎意料的功能。我還在做很多表格方面的工作。我是表格負責人。

Laur

Well, I guess I can also answer. I'm working on plushies. Yeah I'm basically working on brands and like typst's brand and other aspects of the company. Yeah, thank you.

嗯，我想我也可以回答。我正在做毛絨玩具。是的，我基本上在做品牌，比如 Typst 的品牌和公司的其他方面。好的，謝謝。

Ana

And I'm a developer to, and I used to contribute to the compiler a little, but I mostly work on the web app these days. And I'm also like the chief package officer. So I review all the packages that are submitted, the Typst Universe.

我也是一個開發者，以前也為編譯器貢獻過一點程式碼，但現在我主要在 Web 應用程式上工作。我也是首席包管理官，負責稽覈所有提交的 Typst Universe 包。

Reknih

Exactly, and Ana is currently working on a secret upcoming Typst Pro future.

沒錯，而且 Ana 目前正在開發一個秘密的 Typst Pro 特性專案。

Laur

Top secret.

絕密。

Reknih

Top secret. I mean, there are upcoming Sub Pro features that are unexpected.

絕密。我是說，即將推出的 Sub Pro 功能會出乎意料。

Laur

Yes, not the one she's working on though, anyway. And is content flowing into designated areas on the roadmap? Yes, I would say yes. Not in the near future, but in the medium to far future.

是的，但不是她正在做的那個。內容是否流入路線圖上的指定區域？是的，我覺得是的。不是在近期，而是在中遠期。

Reknih

In the Typst lingo that is called box chaining. And I think there's a GitHub issue for that.

在 Typst 的術語裡，這叫做盒子鏈。我覺得 GitHub 上應該有個 issue 討論過。

Laur

Maybe. There was some discussion about it briefly after 0.12 with some ideas being thrown around. Maybe it was in the layout for it so? Probably doable to find that if you're interested in it. If you don't get I'm just seen it.

可能吧。0.12 版本釋出後，曾經有過一些簡短的討論，也提出了一些想法。也許是在佈局相關的討論裡？如果你感興趣，應該可以找到。如果你沒找到，我好像見過。

Reknih

Any updates or thoughts on internal introspection re-layouting to circumvent the five layout reiteration limit without increasing it? Asking for frame? We see you. Local introspection is certainly something that is appealing to us, and I think it has not come up since. When worked on the new table of contents four times.

關於內部 introspection 重新佈局，有沒有什麼更新或想法，可以在不增加五次佈局迭代限制的情況下繞過它？要 frame？我們加了。區域性 introspection 對我們來說肯定是有吸引力的，而且我覺得自從上次我做了新的目錄之後，就再也沒有人提過了。

Laur

but I at least done at least on my end.

但至少我這邊已經完成了。

Reknih

All right, and should I repeat what I said before?

好的，需要我重複我之前說的話嗎？

Laur

I think now it's better.

我覺得現在這樣好多了。

Reknih

And basically that's by Ana. It's something we worked on. Would have liked to have when we did the new outlines and I think Laurenz may have some more thoughts to share.

基本上，這是 Ana 做的。是我們一起完成的。希望我們在做新的大綱時就能有這個，我想 Laurenz 可能會有更多想法要分享。

Laur

Yeah, so maybe we do sort of have something in the end, re-layouting, em, recompiling, realizing, and resell everything. We have something similar in layout engine already for read outing a page to make footnotes work and to make floating figures work and stuff. So it's natural to it have the middle ground between we read out the whole document, we re-layout the page, and we relayed something that the user specifically asked to be relay outed and stabilized locally. But I have not yet thought about it really, what would be needed to implement that and to expose that. So it's a design discussion we can start, but, yeah, I don't have any updates or thoughts to share right now.

好的，所以也許我們最終可以做一些事情，比如重新排版、重新編譯、重新渲染，然後重新顯示所有內容。在佈局引擎中，我們已經有類似的東西，可以用來重新排版頁面，以實現腳註和浮動圖形等功能。所以很自然地，可以在重新排版整個文件、重新排版頁面以及重新排版使用者明確要求重新排版並區域性穩定的內容之間找到一箇中間地帶。但我還沒有真正考慮過，實現這一點需要什麼，以及如何暴露它。所以這是一個我們可以開始的設計討論，但是，是的，我現在沒有任何更新或想法可以分享。

Laur

There some of the, let me quickly finish on the side of the diagnostics. If it does not converge, the title of the next question, I guess. So we don't have plans to increase the number of introspection loops, at least not in a way where the user can control it. I may accept at one day that it might need to be 6 or 7, but we don't have plans to make it user configurable. There's a bunch of discussion about that on GitHub and thoughts about how we can still improve the situation and make it easier to debug. I think that's best just write up on. I can share the link if I can find it.

關於診斷方面，讓我快速說完。如果它不收斂，那就是下一個問題了。所以我們沒有計劃增加內省迴圈的次數，至少不會以使用者可控的方式增加。我可能會在某一天接受它可能需要 6 或 7 次，但我們沒有計劃讓使用者可以配置。GitHub 上有很多關於這方面的討論，以及關於我們如何改進這種情況並使其更容易除錯的想法。我認為最好寫下來。如果我能找到，我可以分享連結。

Reknih

And we are also considering, for example, allowing you to, in a debug environment in the web app, for example, view the document at each in iteration of the introspection group or maybe even like limit them down so you can use it to debug and see where things have gone wrong. So that's something we're considering. But this one of those instances where we are negotiating with terrorists and just have to tell the community to write better packages.

我們也在考慮，例如，允許你在 Web 應用程式的除錯環境中，檢視內省組每次迭代時的文件，或者甚至可以限制它們，這樣你就可以用它來除錯並檢視哪裡出了問題。所以這是我們正在考慮的事情。但這屬於我們與恐怖分子談判的情況之一，只能告訴社羣編寫更好的包。

Laur

Yeah, we will just have the entire ecosystem if we make it configurable. Do you think typst release and tinymist release needs to be somehow synchronized? It's an interesting question. I wonder if it comes from the tinymist folks or not. Probably not, but what? Be more interesting if it would.

如果把它做成可配置的，我們就能擁有整個生態系統。你覺得 Types 和 Tinymist 的釋出需要某種同步嗎？這是個有趣的問題。我想知道這問題是否來自 Tinymist 的開發者。可能不是，但如果真是那樣會更有趣。

Laur

It is interesting because I recently thought again about auto formatting on the web app and we still haven't really decided yet on how we do that, whether we integrate a community formatter or whether we write our own. And the problem even already starts ignoring everything else with the fact that when I make a Typst release, I also published the web app at the same time. So I can't really wait for the Typstyle maintainers to upgrade Typstyle to the new Typst version because I need it right away. And so these are definitely interesting problems. But I think so far it's been working well with having tinymist on its own release schedule and well, then maybe the tinymist developers have thoughts on there, but.

這很有意思，因為我最近又在考慮 Web 應用上的自動格式化問題，我們還沒有真正決定如何處理，是整合社羣的格式化工具，還是自己編寫一個。問題甚至在忽略其他一切之前就已經開始了，因為當我釋出 Typst 版本時，我也會同時釋出 Web 應用。所以我不能真的等著 Typst 維護者將 Typst 升級到新的 Typst 版本，因為我需要立即使用它。所以這些絕對是有趣的問題。但我認為到目前為止，讓 Tinymist 擁有自己的釋出時間表運作良好，也許 Tinymist 開發者對此有想法，但是…

Laur

Yeah, the tinymist, I'm very, very impressed by the development there. It's probably them oops. I, another...

是的，tinymist，我對那裡的開發印象非常深刻。可能是他們…哎呀。我，另一個…

Reknih

We continue to, we continue to joke that @Myriad-Dreamin is actually 20 people.

我們一直開玩笑說紙夜實際上有 20 個人。

Reknih

All right, let's move on to the next question. Will Typst support the digital signature spec and then linked Adobe spec? And I think the answer in the medium term will be no. Why? Because like, I basically don't want to ship stuff in typst that is better suited for specialized tools. And I think that it is more well suited for software that integrates into Typst.

好的，讓我們繼續下一個問題。Typst 是否會支援數字簽名規範？我認為中期來看答案是否定的。為什麼？因為我基本上不想在 Typst 中加入更適合專業工具的東西。我認為它更適合整合到 Typst 中的軟體。

Reknih

Furthermore, I think that with digital signatures especially, people's requirements are very different based on where they are. For example, for some people, a digital signature from a document reader might be enough. Some people require additional signature to be exclusively from DocuSign, others yet, for example, we in the European Union have a digital signature standard where the only digital signature that is actually corresponds to a physical signature on paper is when you verify with your government issued ID or have a voice chat with an agent, which is a service that we can not offer. I can see integrating third party signing kit into the typst web app with Typst Pro, but I can not see building it into the Typst compiler.

此外，我認為對於數字簽名，不同地區的人們的需求差異很大。例如，對某些人來說，文件閱讀器提供的數字簽名可能就足夠了。有些人則要求必須是 DocuSign 提供的簽名。還有一些人，例如歐盟，我們有一個數字簽名標準，只有透過政府頒發的身份證驗證或與客服進行語音聊天才能實現的數字簽名，才真正對應於紙質簽名，而我們無法提供這種服務。我可以看到將第三方簽名工具包整合到 Typst Web App 中，並作為 Typst Pro 的一部分，但我認為無法將其構建到 Typst 編譯器中。

Laur

Do we have plans for another meetup? Do we want to spend another full week preparing things? And then at the day of the meetup, drive with a car, sharing and car to get 20 pizzas from the pizzeria clothes to the authors?

我們有計劃再搞一次線下聚會嗎？我們想再花整整一週時間準備嗎？然後在聚會當天，開車，拼車，從披薩店拿 20 個披薩，分發給作者們？

Reknih

Wait, what? Driving in the car?

等等，什麼？在車裡開車？

Laur

Any plans for another meetup this year? I missed the first one and would be soaked to go to the next. The pizza is awesome, which is why why it was worth it. We could have gotten pizza from any place and they would have delivered it to us, but the pizza they have, it's better, but they don't deliver it.

今年有計劃再舉辦一次聚會嗎？我錯過了第一次，很想參加下一次。披薩太棒了，所以才值得去。我們可以從任何地方買披薩，他們都會送貨上門，但他們提供的披薩更好吃，只是不送貨。

Reknih

Yeah, I would say that's like rank theft Laurenz.

是的，我會說這就像是盜用軍銜，Laurenz。

Laur

I did pay it. (Laugh)

我付過了。（笑）

Reknih

Yeah, indeed. And I think there will be a meetup this year, but, and there will be Pizza again, I think. Yeah. And we asked people identify, it was hilarious. And the next time when I arrived, like a sorting algorithm, I will make it be aware of spaces.

是的，沒錯。而且我覺得今年會有聚會，而且我想會有披薩。是的。我們讓大家表明身份，那場面很搞笑。下次我來的時候，就像一個排序演算法一樣，我會讓它能識別空格。

Laur

Sorry for all the insiders, people, you need to come to the Meetup villain if you want to learn more about these.

對不起各位內部人士，如果你想了解更多這些事情，你需要來參加聚會。

Reknih

Yeah, and I think the people who have been there can attest to it's having been a lot of fun, I hope. And we had a speak request for about 5 seconds. But this is a meeting.

是的，而且我想去過的人可以證明那真的很有趣，我希望如此。我們收到了一個大約 5 秒鐘的發言請求。但這是個會議。

Laur

I didn't invite them. You can, you can join the stage unless you have retracted it again.

我沒有邀請他們。你可以加入發言，除非你又撤回了。

Laur

Okay, maybe not.

好吧，可能不是。

Reknih

Okay, wait, I'll just invite to become a speaker. Okay.

好的，稍等，我邀請你成為發言人。好的。

Laur

right. Okay, well, will it that be possible to actually write some package in Rust instead of having to manage the WASM API? Probably no, because then needs to be compiled in some way. And WASM is the best way.

好的，那麼，有沒有可能用 Rust 編寫一些包，而不是必須管理 WASM API？可能不行，因為那樣需要以某種方式進行編譯。而 WASM 是最好的方式。

Reknih

Yeah, and then you get like platform dependency, and no, thanks.

是啊，然後你就會遇到平臺依賴的問題，不了，謝謝。

Laur

So I guess you mean like like a plugin that is directly loaded as a dynamic library or something, but there is a secret nightmare, so probably no.

所以我想你的意思是，像一個直接作為動態庫載入的外掛之類的，但是這裡面隱藏著隱私問題，所以可能不行。

Reknih

Yeah, I guess this person just wants to implement shell escape. Again, I think what I applied super about raising a number of iterations applies here as well. And I think...

嗯，我想這個人只是想實現 shell escape。再說一遍，我認為我之前說的關於增加迭代次數的建議在這裡也適用。而且我覺得…

Reknih

Confirm now that we have talked about it. And there you go here, could the shadow scpr be reintroduced, but ensure that it can not be used for piracy related purposes?

現在確認一下我們已經討論過了。然後這裡，shell escape 能否被重新引入，但要確保它不能用於盜版相關目的？

Reknih

There was a Nintendo thing in the PR.

PR 裡有個任天堂的東西。

Laur

Right, wait, we can talk about it .

對，等等，我們可以聊聊這個。

Reknih

On April 1?

在愚人節？

Laur

Yeah, in a few weeks, three and a half weeks, we can talk about it.

嗯，幾周後，三週半後，我們可以聊聊。

Reknih

Yeah.

是的。

Laur

Do you want to answer the old question from 5:07?

你想回答 5:07 的老問題嗎？

Reknih

I think I will do that. Typst is privately funded as a majority. Typst's multiple revenue streams: Typst Pro, Typst on premises and Typst open source support being our commercial revenue streams. Then of course, as we've said before, this call Posit is generously supporting us, as is our community via GitHub Sponsors, the open source. And we are receiving some government grants, in particular from the European Union through the foundation and NL for HTML Export at the moment and save for the European Union money, All of that is private. So I guess, yes, Typst is majority privately funded.

我想我會那樣做。Typst 目前主要由私人資助。Typst 有多種收入來源：Typst Pro、Typst 本地部署和 Typst 開源支援是我們的商業收入來源。當然，正如我們之前所說，Posit 慷慨地支援我們，我們的社羣也透過 GitHub Sponsors 和開源專案支援我們。我們還收到了一些政府撥款，特別是來自歐盟透過基金會和 NLfor HTML Export 的撥款。除了歐盟的資金，所有其他的都是私人的。所以我想，是的，Typst 主要由私人資助。

Laur

Okay, have we ever get the speak request.

好的，我們收到發言請求了嗎？

Reknih

okay? Did somebody confirm? But yeah, that okay, interesting. And that way keep us on your to.

好的？有人確認了嗎？好吧，好的，有意思。這樣可以讓我們隨時瞭解情況。

Laur

Interactive PDF, so I guess you mean forms?

互動式 PDF，所以你指的是表單嗎？

Reknih

I think that we once had a contributor who worked on that, but I think he burnt out from it a bit. And since it's sort of floating in the void.

我覺得我們之前有個貢獻者做過這個，但他好像有點累了，然後現在就有點懸在空中。

Laur

it's personally for me, not a priority if someone wants to pick it up.

對我個人而言，這不是優先事項，如果有人想接手，也可以。

Laur

Which is now linked in the chat? We'll. Help basically have things over. And we're also obviously there too discuss things, but it's not a priority.

連結已發在聊天框。我們基本上會提供幫助，當然也會討論問題，但這不是重點。

Reknih

Yeah, and if you do pick it up and need to draw on on our like PDF, better scars and experience, then we'll also be glad to have a call. But it would be maybe a good idea to familiarize yourself with the issue and.

好的，如果你接手了，需要借鑑我們之前在 PDF 上的經驗，我們也很樂意開個會。但最好先熟悉一下問題。

Reknih

PDF 2.0 and PDF A 4 on the long term roadmap.

PDF 2.0 和 PDF A 4 在長期路線圖上。

Reknih

Certificate types doesn't really do that. Is deprecated in PDF or 2.0 that it needs to do. It has some compatibility behaviors that we would need to remove for the 2.0 export and some other stuff we're to write. But these are mostly like mechanical changes, but PDF Afr won't be a big change to you unless somebody implements forms. So I guess sort of linked together. And I would be interested to know, what's your use case for PDF 2.0 is versus 1.7, which we are outputting right now?

證書型別實際上並沒有做這些。它在 PDF 2.0 中已被棄用。它有一些相容性行為，我們需要為 2.0 匯出刪除，還有一些其他的東西需要編寫。但這些大多是機械性的改變，除非有人實現了表單，否則 PDF Afr 對你來說不會有很大的改變。所以我想這有點關聯。我很想知道，你使用 PDF 2.0 的用例是什麼，而不是我們現在輸出的 1.7？

Laur

Now has some thoughts. Maybe he wants to join the stage.

現在有一些想法，可能想加入進來。

Laur

Sorry, you don't have to.

沒關係，你不必這麼做。

Reknih

PDF UA 1 is tied to PDF 1.7, and it's true that in PDF 2.0, tagging is different and more rich. And then generate a PDF 2.0 S, some more accessible format, and the PDF UA two standard A requires it and B gives more indep guidance on how to write an accessible PDF.

PDF UA 1 與 PDF 1.7 相關聯，確實在 PDF 2.0 中，標記方式有所不同，也更加豐富。然後生成一個 PDF 2.0 S，一種更易訪問的格式，PDF UA 2 標準 A 對此有要求，B 提供了關於如何編寫可訪問 PDF 的更多獨立指導。

Reknih

All right?

Laur

Have you thought about improving Typst as a Rust lib, with better docs and word input helpers for diagnostics etc. I mean, sure, we can do that. I think this is a thing that would be fairly easy to contribute to. There's also, for example, the thing that we might want to extract some stuff from the CLI into Typst kit, for example, the watcher. There will, of course, be a bit of bike-shading involved in the APIs.

你有沒有考慮過改進 Typst，把它作為一個 Rust 庫，提供更好的文件和單詞輸入助手，用於診斷等等。我的意思是，當然，我們可以這樣做。我認為這件事很容易貢獻。例如，我們可能想從 CLI 中提取一些東西到 Typst kit 中，比如 watcher。當然，API 中會涉及到一些不必要的爭論。

Laur

One thing I definitely want to do is re-export the crates that Typst depends on like commemo and stuff from Typst so that it's not as big a hassle to specify the dependencies and get everything into shape. Yeah, I think I think the world `impl` is the word `trait`. It's interesting. It is like there were a bunch of different interfaces before that. This is like the fifth iteration or something, and I think it is good because it's very flexible. But it takes some time to wrap your head around it, so the better docs will definitely be good and not too much work total. I'm not sure exactly what helpers for diagnostics means, but better document world input is definitely something we can.

我肯定想做的一件事是重新匯出 Typst 依賴的 crates，比如 commemo 之類的，從 Typst 匯出，這樣指定依賴項並使所有內容成形就不會那麼麻煩了。對，我覺得 `impl` 這個詞就是 `trait`。挺有意思的。好像之前有很多不同的介面。這像是第五次迭代了，我覺得挺好的，因為它非常靈活。但需要花一些時間才能理解它，所以更好的文件肯定會很好，而且總的來說工作量也不會太大。我不確定診斷的 helpers 具體是什麼意思，但更好的文件絕對是我們能做的。

Laur

Person that asked this ones.

問這個問題的人。

Reknih

Be kind to us.

Laur

What meanst? What is the meaning of .

什麼意思？是什麼的意思？

Reknih

What is the meaning of this? Laurenz, I think it just doomed when you accept it worked. It worked, it worked, it worked.

這是什麼意思？Laurenz，我覺得你接受它能用的時候，它就註定完蛋了。它能用，它能用，它能用。

Pachi

Can you hear me?

能聽到我說話嗎？

Reknih

Yes, welcome.

可以，歡迎。

Pachi

Thank you by diagnostics. Well, this design to build an application using Typst for layouting and generating PDF, and for some energy efficiency certificate related issues.

感謝 diagnostics。這個設計的目的是使用 Typst 進行排版和生成 PDF，以及解決一些能源效率認證相關的問題，來構建一個應用程式。

Pachi

And I have to dig in the code to learn how to use the library. That's normal, but for instance, when I want to print the warnings and errors, I have to go deep into the library because it it's not very clear how to do it. And sometimes to recreate or some of the afford that you have for right into the console to the terminal. And I had to dig into some label, but there is even from a different crate that it's not entirely, but it seems to be related. So I mean, it's all very spread around and sometimes it's very difficult to understand how all the pieces fit together.

我不得不深入研究程式碼來學習如何使用這個庫。這很正常，但例如，當我想列印警告和錯誤時，我必須深入到庫的內部，因為它不是很清楚該怎麼做。而且有時候為了重新建立或者實現你在控制檯或終端上擁有的功能，我不得不研究一些標籤，但這些標籤甚至來自不同的 crate，雖然不完全相關，但似乎有關聯。所以我的意思是，所有東西都非常分散，有時很難理解所有部分是如何組合在一起的。

Pachi

And also the word implementation is really nice once you understand it and maybe even quite easy it. But you have to first understand well what's a file ID and, eh, how you keep the file IDs and how they match between the names of the files and the IDs or how the Typst find a file for a package or a source etc. And there are lots of little missing pieces of information that it would be have better docs on that. But I think it's so fanta-, the library is so fantastic, so great, that I'm sure many more Rust developers would come to improve the library. And the software, they can use it in different ways from the Typst compiler.

而且，一旦你理解了它的實現方式，就會覺得它非常好，甚至可能很簡單。但你首先要很好地理解什麼是檔案 ID，以及如何儲存檔案 ID，以及它們如何在檔名和 ID 之間匹配，或者 Typst 如何為包或原始檔等找到檔案。有很多缺失的資訊，如果能有更好的文件就好了。但我認為這個庫太棒了，太好了，我相信會有更多的 Rust 開發者來改進這個庫。而且這些軟體，他們可以用不同於 Typst 編譯器的方式來使用它。

Laur

Okay, I think that's very fair. Sounds to me like it's really primarily a docs issue. And for example, like for the diagnostics, like the interface that Typst exposes is it tries to be as abstract? Well, not as abstract as possible, but as abstract as necessary so that you can read, display it in any way you like in the terminal or in the web app or wherever, and which is why it's a bit removed from just printed to the console, which is why various other crates like codespan reporting are involved. I think we can try to move some of that stuff to Typst Kit, but to me it sounds like the main issue is to read the docs and that makes a lot of sense like the things like file IDs.

好的，我覺得這很合理。聽起來主要是一個文件問題。例如，對於診斷資訊，Typst 暴露的介面試圖儘可能抽象？好吧，不是儘可能抽象，而是根據需要進行抽象，這樣你就可以在終端、Web 應用或任何地方以你喜歡的方式讀取和顯示它。這就是為什麼它與直接列印到控制檯有點脫節的原因，這也是為什麼涉及到像 codespan reporting 這樣的各種其他 crate。我認為我們可以嘗試將其中一些內容移到 Typst Kit，但對我來說，主要問題是閱讀文件，這很有意義，比如檔案 ID 之類的東西。

Reknih

Yeah, and I can say like even back, way back when the file IDs were source IDs, I'd constantly like every two months or something, I have to interact with the web apps while implementation for some reason or other. And every time I have to ask Laurenz, what does the source IDs do and why can't I construct it and stuff like this?

是的，我可以說，甚至早在檔案 ID 還是源 ID 的時候，我經常，大概每兩個月左右，就不得不因為某些原因與 Web 應用的實現進行互動。而且每次我都不得不問 Laurenz，源 ID 是做什麼的，為什麼我不能構造它，以及諸如此類的問題？

Laur

Yeah.

Pachi

Yeah. For instance, I only think that README is not having a some way of having access or or packages or some way to extra how to get information from, for instance, embedded packages, from downloaded packages or from. A kiter directory on some directory because those could be quite modular elements. And there is in type this kit. There is a way to have a front-load helper. There's a font load helper, but there's not some helper to get packages from, from the network. You have to search in Typst, and that's another missing part that that are very spread around. There's seeing a Typst embedded packages trait that is quite interesting but difficult to understand how to use it until you know well.

是的。例如，我認為 README 缺少某種訪問或獲取包的方式，或者某種從嵌入式包、下載的包或某個目錄下的 kiter 目錄中提取資訊的方式，因為這些可能是非常模組化的元素。在 Typst 的 kit 中，有一種預載入助手的方法，但沒有助手可以從網路獲取包。你必須在 Typst 中搜尋，這是另一個缺失的部分，而且非常分散。有一個 Typst 嵌入式包 trait，非常有趣，但很難理解如何使用，除非你非常瞭解它。

Laur

I think? Well, I do. I do like refactoring stuff. So just moving around stuff from the CLI Typst is actually would be a day well spent for me.

我想？好吧，我是這麼想的。我確實喜歡重構東西。所以僅僅是從 CLI Typst 移動東西對我來說實際上就是有意義的一天。

Reknih

Amazing.

Laur

Matthew, Matthew considers that a day well spent for me, but I think this is something we can improve in the short term.

Matthew 認為這對我來說是有意義的一天，但我認為這是我們可以在短期內改進的事情。

Reknih

All right, and thank you for coming to the stage and sharing your feedback.

好的，感謝您來到臺上分享您的反饋。

Laur

I think this is something that should be inspiring to other people to join the stage, to join the conversation.

我覺得這件事應該能激勵其他人加入進來，參與討論。

Reknih

Yes, and be an inspiring leader and affect the change you want to see in typst. And so now we are the first time people on stage it again. But is expert.

是的，成為一個鼓舞人心的領導者，並在 Typst 中推動你想要看到的改變。所以現在我們再次邀請了第一批人上臺，但這次是專家。

Laur

you don't yet exist, but you would really like to see developers. It's interesting because this was a question that was also asked last time. And we said something about chemistry. And I just recently saw that there is some sort of community working on chemistry packages.

你現在可能還不存在，但你真的很想看到開發者。有趣的是，上次也有人問過這個問題。我們當時提到了化學。我最近看到好像有個社羣在開發化學相關的包。

Reknih

Nice, so you should join those people, especially if you know something about chemistry. I think maybe it's being a stoner comes to those always have surprising breadth of knowledge about chemistry.